Curse

Draxanoth · Apr 22, 2007, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Don't get me wrong on this, I think its great ANET actually attempts to evolve their creation, but it feels like they're quickly sucking the laid back nature out of this game.

Hard mode was a novel idea, but it's just like DoA... everywhere... Mobs with complementary skills, and innate advantages we can't obtain. Instead of looming environmental affects they get +50% to everything. I'm not as easily impressed as everyone else by these gimmicks. The complementary skills were a good improvement, but the extra was unnecessary. Sorrow's Furnace was a masterful addition. Why they couldn't make something in the same vein I don't understand. Instead they cripple us, then tell us to go kill mobs that can damn near single shot our support members. Furnace didn't need that, and it still takes a good team to do it effectively.

I'd rather they fixed the stuff they broke before fiddling with things we've had forever that aren't broken. Like soul reaping, it worked fine when spirits didn't count, and it would work fine returned to that instead of this 5 seconds nonsense. I have a necro, barely played him in the last year, but my heart goes out to those that use one as their primary char.

Hero AI is atrocious. I swear Zhed thinks he’s Chuck Norris now. Charges full bore into a pack of 50 mobs right after I’ve flagged him a half mile away.

This partial farming repair they did is ridiculous too. I think most can agree, not many items are worth anything. Now they've stripped the farming of quantity over quality. I have a pretty large sum stashed, but all the new players wanting 15k are fairly screwed, especially those without nightfall and "buried treasure". Maybe it's a marketing gimmick for NF, but I loved farming loads of white items. Even if I got nothing rare, dammit it was just plain fun. Didn’t have to spend hours in town trying to sell anything either. Was a nice way to put in a few minutes and actually draw in 5k or so, and figuring out how to get the most for your minute was a nice puzzle. Posting builds kinda ruined that, but I’m not a cookie cutter person. Better to make up your own and share with a few friends for maximum results. Maybe it has something to do with botting, but is spiting a minority of cheaters worth screwing a vast quantity out of something they enjoy?

I'm sure there's some farfetched idea that this will balance the economy. No money = no buyers, no buyers = must lower prices. Unfortunately 15k armor doesn't just decrease when no one is buying. You want to reduce prices, give us an auction house. A single location to concentrate sales will show the true rarity of items instead of rarity + odds of finding someone selling.

I know I'll get bombarded with a "stop whining" from tons of folk who'd be just as happy playing WoW on a 13 hour raid, but this isn't WoW. I joined GW opening day because I liked playing a game I didn’t have to live inside of. That’s slowly being bled out by changes to the core of what GW is. If it continues heading towards the WoWism it's slowly been adopting I'll be going to play somewhere else, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who don’t appreciate where the game is heading. They shouldn't need to ruin the classic things people enjoy when adding new ones. DoA was no big deal, it didn't affect the things people enjoyed already. Taking the large free for all out of HOH, hosing SR, turning heroes into brain damaged delusional noobs, and taking the simple farming away, does.

I didn’t say anything when HOH got mangled, AI got slapped hard, and SR was totally amputated, but it’s getting a little ridiculous. I’ve loved this game for far too long to let it all go to hell, I paid for a game I can come play for an hour and feel like I've gotten somewhere, not one they'll change to a grindfest on a dev's whim. Sorrow's Furnace still takes a fairly well oiled team to do effectively, without million level mobs and overly tedious innate abilities on the opposing side. Why they haven't been able to replicate that I am unsure. Hopefully I explained thoroughly enough to avoid the pointless flames and actually conjure some constructive discussion. If you have nothing constructive to say, please go elsewhere. Thank you. =)

reetkever · Apr 22, 2007, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Get over it. Weapon prices will soon go down to only 100K + 10 ecto's, and you only have to do 5 million troll runs if you want to buy it. DW, it'll take only 5 years, enough time to live.

tytons · Apr 22, 2007, 11:11 AM // 11:11

what i see is the problem here is some things are just archieved to easily..imo 15k armors are not a must..if u wan it.u work for it..dont expect to gain it without working for it.u get the normal armor..they are just the same..no diff in stats..so if its cosmetics u want..earn it..atleast it gives u some pride wearing it.

Redfeather1975 · Apr 22, 2007, 11:13 AM // 11:13

I still don't think there is any mandatory grinding in this game.
Anything that could be considered a grind is just something that's either an item that is supposed to be rare or content put in to eat the time of people who play the game a lot.
I've never played another online RPG where I wasn't forced to constantly gain xp to get to new areas. I think Guild Wars has a very long way to go before anything that's mandatory is an actual grind.

Farming is supposed to be a grind. It's not mandatory. It's to buy luxuries.
15k armor and green items require grinding otherwise every casual gamer would be sporting them in no time. They are all supposed to be rarely seen and stand out.

Wish Swiftdeath · Apr 22, 2007, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Get over it. Weapon prices will soon go down to only 100K + 10 ecto's, and you only have to do 5 million troll runs if you want to buy it. DW, it'll take only 5 years, enough time to live.

hehe, you missed the /sarcasm

Anyways i dont really mind, people will just bitch until anet has no option but to fix it

Redfeather1975 · Apr 22, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

I'd like to change one thing I said.
There is one mandatory grind in the game.
It's Nightfall's whole starting island.
Really didn't like having to kill monsters over and over to get sunspear ranks and xp, just to get further in the storyline.

reetkever · Apr 22, 2007, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

hehe, you missed the /sarcasm

Anyways i dont really mind, people will just bitch until anet has no option but to fix it

It wasn't sarcasm :P

Weapon prices won't drop alot, if they drop at all. And you know how many troll runs are required for 100K + 10 ecto's when you only get 100 gold per run?

And if you play only 2 hours a day, you can make about 5K then. That is, if you waste ALL the time with farming ONLY. And nobody would do that.

Draxanoth · Apr 22, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

what i see is the problem here is some things are just archieved to easily..imo 15k armors are not a must..if u wan it.u work for it..dont expect to gain it without working for it.u get the normal armor..they are just the same..no diff in stats..so if its cosmetics u want..earn it..atleast it gives u some pride wearing it.

I agree there should be some work involved, but I consider someone spending 5 runs a day for a month working towards getting their 15k.

Quote:

I still don't think there is any mandatory grinding problems in this game.
Anything that could be considered a grind is just something that's either an item that is supposed to be rare or content put in to eat the time of people who play the game a lot.
I've never played another online RPG where I wasn't forced to constantly gain xp to get to new areas. I think Guild Wars has a very long way to go before anything that's mandatory is an actual grind. Farming is supposed to be a grind. It's not mandatory. 15k armor and green items requiring grinding otherwise every casual gamer would be sporting them in no time. They are all supposed to be rarely seen.

I have about 4 million gold across my two accounts, farming isn't really necessary, but I enjoyed it anyway. I think grind may be the wrong terminology for the rest. There is nothing mandatory in a game, but when you pay $50-60 to play wouldn't you be a little irked you are forced to patch and they're going to destroy the parts you liked the most? Being able to toss in a competent AI monk instead of waiting 8 hours for a real one, or run out for a few farming waves to pick up some white dye, running minions during EG and knowing your energy wouldn't totally suck and make /mesmer required?

They added one giant tediousness with hard mode, and took away a lot of elements that made GW a game you didn't have to live in to accomplish lofty goals. People shouldn't have to farm stuff that takes hours to land a single item worth a fair amount, but now they have to. Sorrow's Furnace is proof they don't have to cheat and use time itself to make places challenging. They've crippled a lot of players lately and there's too many people who thinks it's alright.

viper11025 · Apr 22, 2007, 11:50 AM // 11:50

I look at it this way.Do challenge missions with drops all day and use the faction to buy jade then sell it.OOOps I told everyone my secret.
(The new farming sux I agree)

Poison Ivy · Apr 22, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

It wasn't sarcasm :P

Weapon prices won't drop alot, if they drop at all. And you know how many troll runs are required for 100K + 10 ecto's when you only get 100 gold per run?

And if you play only 2 hours a day, you can make about 5K then. That is, if you waste ALL the time with farming ONLY. And nobody would do that.

Perhaps Anet wants to make 15ks and weapons more unaccessible, and encourage players to use collectors/greens/1.5ks?

At least it seems like what their trying to achieve.

Theus · Apr 22, 2007, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draxanoth

Don't get me wrong on this, I think its great ANET actually attempts to evolve their creation, but it feels like they're quickly sucking the laid back nature out of this game.

Hard mode was a novel idea, but it's just like DoA... everywhere... Mobs with complementary skills, and innate advantages we can't obtain. Instead of looming environmental affects they get +50% to everything. I'm not as easily impressed as everyone else by these gimmicks. The complementary skills were a good improvement, but the extra was unnecessary. Sorrow's Furnace was a masterful addition. Why they couldn't make something in the same vein I don't understand. Instead they cripple us, then tell us to go kill mobs that can damn near single shot our support members. Furnace didn't need that, and it still takes a good team to do it effectively.

I'd rather they fixed the stuff they broke before fiddling with things we've had forever that aren't broken. Like soul reaping, it worked fine when spirits didn't count, and it would work fine returned to that instead of this 5 seconds nonsense. I have a necro, barely played him in the last year, but my heart goes out to those that use one as their primary char.

Hero AI is atrocious. I swear Zhed thinks he’s Chuck Norris now. Charges full bore into a pack of 50 mobs right after I’ve flagged him a half mile away.

This partial farming repair they did is ridiculous too. I think most can agree, not many items are worth anything. Now they've stripped the farming of quantity over quality. I have a pretty large sum stashed, but all the new players wanting 15k are fairly screwed, especially those without nightfall and "buried treasure". Maybe it's a marketing gimmick for NF, but I loved farming loads of white items. Even if I got nothing rare, dammit it was just plain fun. Didn’t have to spend hours in town trying to sell anything either. Was a nice way to put in a few minutes and actually draw in 5k or so, and figuring out how to get the most for your minute was a nice puzzle. Posting builds kinda ruined that, but I’m not a cookie cutter person. Better to make up your own and share with a few friends for maximum results. Maybe it has something to do with botting, but is spiting a minority of cheaters worth screwing a vast quantity out of something they enjoy?

I'm sure there's some farfetched idea that this will balance the economy. No money = no buyers, no buyers = must lower prices. Unfortunately 15k armor doesn't just decrease when no one is buying. You want to reduce prices, give us an auction house. A single location to concentrate sales will show the true rarity of items instead of rarity + odds of finding someone selling.

I know I'll get bombarded with a "stop whining" from tons of folk who'd be just as happy playing WoW on a 13 hour raid, but this isn't WoW. I joined GW opening day because I liked playing a game I didn’t have to live inside of. That’s slowly being bled out by changes to the core of what GW is. If it continues heading towards the WoWism it's slowly been adopting I'll be going to play somewhere else, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who don’t appreciate where the game is heading. They shouldn't need to ruin the classic things people enjoy when adding new ones. DoA was no big deal, it didn't affect the things people enjoyed already. Taking the large free for all out of HOH, hosing SR, turning heroes into brain damaged delusional noobs, and taking the simple farming away, does.

I didn’t say anything when HOH got mangled, AI got slapped hard, and SR was totally amputated, but it’s getting a little ridiculous. I’ve loved this game for far too long to let it all go to hell, I paid for a game I can come play for an hour and feel like I've gotten somewhere, not one they'll change to a grindfest on a dev's whim. Sorrow's Furnace still takes a fairly well oiled team to do effectively, without million level mobs and overly tedious innate abilities on the opposing side. Why they haven't been able to replicate that I am unsure. Hopefully I explained thoroughly enough to avoid the pointless flames and actually conjure some constructive discussion. If you have nothing constructive to say, please go elsewhere. Thank you. =)

tl;dr

Protip:Grind is only present when it is required to move forward in the game.Hardmode isn't needed to procede or enjoy the game.It's optional.

Thus,it isn't grind.

reetkever · Apr 22, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poison Ivy

Perhaps Anet wants to make 15ks and weapons more unaccessible, and encourage players to use collectors/greens/1.5ks?

At least it seems like what their trying to achieve.

If they did that, they'd make collectible drops used for the weapons/armor drop more frequently, and they'd reduce the price of perfect forger weapons. (10K + materials for a 15^50 weapon? No thanks)

lacasner · Apr 22, 2007, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Well, nothing in this game was really intended to be over 100k, so is this really a bad thing?

Hengis · Apr 22, 2007, 01:29 PM // 13:29

As much as I like the Hard Mode update (farming nerfs excluded - but that's a different subject), there is one thing I am not so sure about.

To gain the Vanquisher title you have to clear each map in one sitting.

This is hardly friendly to the casual gamer. Some people I know, in my guild for example, share their PCs with the rest of the family.

Having cleared some of the mid level maps that take around 90 minutes, I am guessing that some of the larger area maps will take well over two hours to clear. If you have a brother, sister, parent or child trying to get on your PC while you are in the middle of one of these maps then you are in big trouble.

I know it is not possible, but it sure would be nice to be able to save mid-map (assuming that you were playing only with heros and hench).

Miral · Apr 22, 2007, 01:29 PM // 13:29

eh.... guild wars started that descent a year ago when factions came out, then continued when nightfall was released...

Swift Thief · Apr 22, 2007, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Stop saying Hard Mode is grind, because it isn't...

Orbberius · Apr 22, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hengis Stone

As much as I like the Hard Mode update (farming nerfs excluded - but that's a different subject), there is one thing I am not so sure about.

To gain the Vanquisher title you have to clear each map in one sitting.

This is hardly friendly to the casual gamer. Some people I know, in my guild for example, share their PCs with the rest of the family.

Having cleared some of the mid level maps that take around 90 minutes, I am guessing that some of the larger area maps will take well over two hours to clear. If you have a brother, sister, parent or child trying to get on your PC while you are in the middle of one of these maps then you are in big trouble.

I know it is not possible, but it sure would be nice to be able to save mid-map (assuming that you were playing only with heros and hench).

But the title isn't meant to be friendly to the 'casual' gamer. Don't like it? Don't do it. You don't need it for anything.

Lydz · Apr 22, 2007, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Boohoo!

Luxuries aren't needed...you can manage fine without them. What's the point of them if everyone has them? It's like the Sunspear titles...almost every second person has Sunspear X displayed...I mean how boring! I see absolutely no prestige in wearing a Sunspear title. It would be the same if everyone was running around with FoW armour and the best weapon they can find...

No one is making you play the game in hard mode. If you want to attempt to Vanquish an area, you have to be prepared to deal with the fact that you may get interrupted. It's called HARD mode for a reason o.O

Miral · Apr 22, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbberius

But the title isn't meant to be friendly to the 'casual' gamer. Don't like it? Don't do it. You don't need it for anything.

yet, anyway. anet has a track record of making random time consuming titles have a use (notable examples are wisdom, treasure hunter, and to the scorn of many, lucky)

Samurai-JM · Apr 22, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbberius

But the title isn't meant to be friendly to the 'casual' gamer. Don't like it? Don't do it. You don't need it for anything.

But sadly half the game now revolves around "hardcore" gamers who have nothing better to do than spend 3 hours clearing a single map, then doing it over and over again so they can have 2 little words under their character that 90% of the world will never see. GG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swift Thief

Stop saying Hard Mode is grind, because it isn't...

Playing hard mode isn't perhaps, but playing it for the reasons it was made(titles, more titles, maybe a few drops, and more titles) is grinding. 100%.

EDIT: To all you people saying "stop crying you dont HAVE to do it"... Whats the point then? Most players who have had this game more than a month have probably beat it all and worked up many titles, why introduce this hard mode if no one is going to play it?